Very interesting topic and i agree that civilizational collapse is attractive to many as a red herring hot-button issue. Quigleys book Evolution of Civilizations i found good and measured on the subject. He points out the reform aspects, that all collapses dont end in a final collapse. I studied medieval literature in which the past is seen as idyllic and the present as a denigrated time, not able to recapture the magic of the idealized past. At the same time, the past is dressed up as the present, ie 2nd Century Cappedocian St George depicted as one of todays knights in the 13th Century. im not sure if this is what you mean with “presentism”?
Very late in responding, my apologies! Thanks for commenting. I’ll make a note of Quigley, for further inquiry.
Yeah, there’s something charming about medieval depictions of the past as looking just like the present; the Morgan Bible dressing up Old Testament kings as medieval knights.
My sense is that, if you don’t have any archeological ability to really understand what the past looked like, you naturally depict it as familiar and relatable to the audience.
That’s technically less accurate, but in my mind, very sensible.
There’s a modern form of presentism however, which tries to do this with values and attitudes, not material culture. Mel Gibson in Braveheart sounding like John Locke, or all the painful attempts inject modern culture war tropes into period pieces.
We’ve somehow become far more realistic with movie sets and props and CGI, just as we’ve become even more anachronistic with values and social roles.
i always wonder how much of these recoveries had to do with power struggle - the roman empire living on relied on european powers claiming roman ancestry as a sign of legitimacy. for each of these countries, being roman was a sign that they were owed power and something to be proud of - which makes me think of religious zeal. if we were to talk about our modern climate, it seems that we’re on the same wavelength of people extremely pessimistic about the future of our country - they just blame each other for it. and like always, this piece was fantastic!!
Believing your civilization is worth preserving, and having a positive ideal to rally around, is really important. Doomerism can be a self-fulfilling fatalistic prophecy.
And competition between rival powr centers is also generally good. Even in our factional system where both sides yell at each other, it forces them to stay on their game.
Very interesting topic and i agree that civilizational collapse is attractive to many as a red herring hot-button issue. Quigleys book Evolution of Civilizations i found good and measured on the subject. He points out the reform aspects, that all collapses dont end in a final collapse. I studied medieval literature in which the past is seen as idyllic and the present as a denigrated time, not able to recapture the magic of the idealized past. At the same time, the past is dressed up as the present, ie 2nd Century Cappedocian St George depicted as one of todays knights in the 13th Century. im not sure if this is what you mean with “presentism”?
Very late in responding, my apologies! Thanks for commenting. I’ll make a note of Quigley, for further inquiry.
Yeah, there’s something charming about medieval depictions of the past as looking just like the present; the Morgan Bible dressing up Old Testament kings as medieval knights.
My sense is that, if you don’t have any archeological ability to really understand what the past looked like, you naturally depict it as familiar and relatable to the audience.
That’s technically less accurate, but in my mind, very sensible.
There’s a modern form of presentism however, which tries to do this with values and attitudes, not material culture. Mel Gibson in Braveheart sounding like John Locke, or all the painful attempts inject modern culture war tropes into period pieces.
We’ve somehow become far more realistic with movie sets and props and CGI, just as we’ve become even more anachronistic with values and social roles.
i always wonder how much of these recoveries had to do with power struggle - the roman empire living on relied on european powers claiming roman ancestry as a sign of legitimacy. for each of these countries, being roman was a sign that they were owed power and something to be proud of - which makes me think of religious zeal. if we were to talk about our modern climate, it seems that we’re on the same wavelength of people extremely pessimistic about the future of our country - they just blame each other for it. and like always, this piece was fantastic!!
Yes
Believing your civilization is worth preserving, and having a positive ideal to rally around, is really important. Doomerism can be a self-fulfilling fatalistic prophecy.
And competition between rival powr centers is also generally good. Even in our factional system where both sides yell at each other, it forces them to stay on their game.
like how even though both sides preach doom and gloom, they ultimately want what they believe is the best for the country?